One of our more vocal members is really opposing us inserting our rocks. His concern is we have had the same set of rocks for 4 decades and they were just fine. We now have had them polished 2x in the past 7 years. We are now seriously considering having the rocks inserted but our member is concerned that there is something in our ice that is ruining the rocks.
I am thinking that one of the reasons we aren't so happy with our stones is the standards have changed for ice speed. So the old rocks when they were at their best wouldn't make us happy today. We do know if we have the inserted rocks they run 10-15% faster than our rocks(we borrowed a set).
So my question is does anyone have the standards for competitive ice from 10 years ago compared to today? Is there anything we should be checking that could be hurting our rocks? We have checked the PH of the ice.
Thanks again.
I might be tempted to look more at off season storage issues rather than at in season ice issues.
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John Murphy - Dartmouth NS
http://www.maritimecurling.info
Dory, you are having a hard time! To make it worse, you're onto a tricky subject. Stones and ice work together, change one and the other changes too -- but what is changing!
Older stones that haven't been sanded acquire a naturally matured running band which, for me, is by far the best. But to be sure they curl and play keen the ice will usually have to be warmer than otherwise. On the other hand, newly refurbed stones, sanded stones or new inserts will be more aggressive and will need colder ice to speed them up and stop them curling too much. Curlers hear about this, older generations too, and think they have the answers, and maybe they do. The odds are maybe they don't.
There is nothing that says 40yr old stones are worn out. What do you mean by "polished"? Measure the width of the running band first, see how wide that is. Look at the striking bands, how flat are they. Weigh some stones and see if they come close to 18kg plus. Having stones refurbished is an expensive business and will give you a new problem, and only by looking at all the factors involved will you be able to develop the solutions. What is "keen" for you? Here we work on T-T of 27secs, 28 is too fast and 26 is getting slow. Are your players expecting 28? Every time you "polish" stones their behaviour will change, and after a few weeks they'll change again as they mature. Mess with stones and that is what you get.
I don't believe competitive standards have changed much over the past ten years. What has changed is the ability of stone makers and technicians manipulating both ice and stones better, and I can assure you manipulating stones will not last, it wears off, while naturally matured stones remain constant. If the running bands are about 8mm wide the inserts are a good idea. If not, leave well alone and work on the ice surface. Then be careful when your curlers express an opinion after you've changed something -- are they struggling to adapt and losing games they would've won before? Happens all the time!
If your stones have never been inserted, you could be running them on the wrong granite (for the body the granite is usually softer and will wear differently to blue-hone inserts). You'll have to discuss this with Fred Veale or a real stone expert, these people know stones better than we do.
Sorry, no easy answers here!
I would agree with John that a set of naturally matured stones is preferable, assuming they run consistantly with each other and aren't worn out!
It's really tough to come up with a recommendation without seeing the stones themselves. What type of granite is it? How badly pitted are the stones, what's the running surface width. Also, more importantly how well are they matched, what is their speed and how much do they curl with your normal setup?
That being said, there's nothing wrong with inserted rocks. All the major championships use inserted rocks and they're fine there. However, with any new set, or inserted set you will need to work on your rocks to keep the curl in them over time. Fred Veale is the guy to ask about that. But, you won't hurt your rocks by getting them inserted.
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